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Change the fps_max limit on Ehll mode?
No, keep the limit at 125fps 20 (47.6%)
Yes, increase it to 144fps 13 (31%)
Yes, increase it to 200fps 9 (21.4%)
Total Votes: 42
Bump the fps limit in Ehll gamemode
Topic Started: Nov 20 2016, 10:40 PM (2,916 Views)
.Executλble
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Before I start, I know this is a very "difficult" subject in the community, everyone seems to have their own opinions on this question, and I'm even notorious myself for using 250fps all the time.

I do have one proposal however: Raise the maximum allowed fps_max limit in Ehll gamemode to at least 144 or 200fps.

Playing Half-Life at 125fps on a 144Hz monitor feels horrible. There's tearing, the game feels like it's stuttering all the time and the mouse input doesn't feel that very "clean" either, as if there's some sort of an input lag. I've talked to some players about this, and they seem to feel it too on their 144Hz refresh rate monitors.

Bumping the limit to 144fps would atleast make the game smooth on such screens, and it's really not that big of an increase over 125fps. This would be enough for me, but if you guys are up for it, might even consider bumping it all the way to 200, that way it'd eliminate tearing completely as well. Also, I'm pretty sure everyone's computers are capable of achieving such framerates in Half-Life in 2016, so players with powerful computers wouldn't get much (if any) advantage at all over this small change.

144fps might seem an "odd" value for Half-Life, since it doesn't follow the 1000/n formula, but it doesn't matter anymore. There used to be a slowdown in the game when you used these values, but it was fixed in 2013 on the Steam version of HL, so we might as well use whatever now. Although if you dislike it, could use the 200fps limit too.

And no, I'm not proposing this because I like to play unfair with 250fps. This is the sole reason why I do it in the first place. I don't care about the speed that it gives me, I just want my game to feel good :)

What do you guys think?
Edited by .Executλble, Nov 20 2016, 10:55 PM.
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The_Falcon
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I don't think there'll be issues bumping it to 160 fps.

A lot of people use custom/older builds, so the changes Steam made (which were also incomplete) don't matter much.
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.Executλble
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If I recall correctly, the older 6027 build already has this issue fixed, so I imagine the only players who would still face this issue would be those who are using old non-steam p47/p48 versions, or anything earlier than 2013 builds.
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rav
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bump it up

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.Executλble
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Added a poll to the original post. Vote.
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glassbeadgame
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if you can find a solution to the ghost models left behind by high fps values, i have no problem with unlimited fps cap...

but if there isn't a solution to solve it, i am against it.

sorry but that's my biggest gripe with high fps, is the ghost models it leaves behind.

also, fps still affects movement speed and spawn time (and probably weapon fire rate), a test is to run fps_max 248 and gauss into the air... you will float like a cloud

Protocol version 48
Exe version 1.1.2.2/Stdio (valve)
Exe build: 17:47:17 Apr 25 2013 (6027)
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.Executλble
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Ah yes, that's true, I completely forgot about the ghost corpses. I'll have to test it at 144fps, since the increase is very little it might be that the corpse bug would not happen at all on this particular value. Same with the speeds, the increase is likely to be very minor in such case.

Another solution would be trying to get a plugin or something going on to remove the dead bodies after a few seconds, or patch the servers, since we do have the source code for them now. But that's something for the future :)

EDIT: Corpses seem to be fine at 144fps, no glitch.
EDIT 2: The corpses are broken at 200fps. Damn, any way to change my vote now?
Edited by .Executλble, Nov 21 2016, 04:05 PM.
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glassbeadgame
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well for now i will vote 144fps, an unlimited cap would be nice in a future ag.

like you, i want to take advantage of my 144hz monitor with nvidia fast sync :]
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rav
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i voted for 200 but 144 would be fine as well....

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The_Falcon
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200 fps is the fps that gives the biggest speed advantage. It's the reason we've put the cap in the first place.
I can make a change to allow up to 160 fps (for 160 Hz people) regardless of vote results. For 200 fps however you'll need a successful poll with the default poll conditions regarding creating/changing a rule.
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.Executλble
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Yeah, should edit the poll if possible (without clearing the results), or just count the 200fps votes towards 144 or 160fps. 200fps is more broken than I thought, so it definitely shouldn't be the new limit.

Not sure if there are 160Hz monitors, but I would imagine some old CRTs would support that frequency. Just checked, 160fps doesn't have the broken dead corpses either, so it would be fine imo.

I just remembered there's a "proper" value that's close to 144fps. If you divide 1000 by 7 you get 142.857, so the fps_max limit could be at 142.357 (since the game adds 0.5fps by itself as you can see on net_graph). It seems to have the same smoothness as 144fps and no tearing (nvm, seems like there's a little), but I think it doesn't matter too much if you use this or 144fps because it's fixed now anyway, as I explained earlier.

If we go with 160, then the closest "proper" value would be at 166.666666667fps (1000 / 6).
Edited by .Executλble, Nov 23 2016, 05:45 PM.
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rav
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leego
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dirky
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Voted 200 as 250 was not an option.

Who in a loose bag of fuxs is using 125 because their machine restricts them to this? If the answer is nobody then surely bump to 250 because at that who is having the advantage if we all pissing into the same pot?
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rav
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i'm sure there are some hispanic players or kids from noi's village that dont have pc's capable of running 125 fps


hell rammy and I before our last pc upgrade couldnt get a steady 125 and those computers were built in like 2012-2013 or something
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.Executλble
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Well so far we have 5 votes against and 10 for raising the fps limit (I count the 144 and 200fps votes together simply because, as The Falcon explained, allowing 200fps is illogical, I just made the vote without thinking too much about it but it makes more sense that way).

Anyway, how hard is it to modify the gamemode for this change? Is it based on a command?

Also, when do you guys feel this change could be implemented? I would suggest to allow it starting with the next season, if the vote passes.
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izzo
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not better just 2 options ? 125, unlimited ?
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.Executλble
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Well unlimited should not be an option because it could be abused way too much (ridiculous speeds, ghost bodies and so on..), but yeah, it should've been 125 and 144, but it's too late to change it now.

We could assume that those who voted for 200 are also fine with 144.
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The_Falcon
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To the people that want unlimited fps, the question here is - do you want it because you want to have higher fps, or do you want it because you want to have speed advantage over the other players?

In other words, would you still want and use it if it's unlimited but the exact speed advantage values are blocked?
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chort
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im fine with 250 fps, game become smooth. Speed advantage is exaggerated imho, 100 fps isn't lower (only spawns are faster).
The real 250 fps problem is ghost models, fix it !
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toX
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The_Falcon
Nov 23 2016, 05:10 PM
200 fps is the fps that gives the biggest speed advantage. It's the reason we've put the cap in the first place.
I can make a change to allow up to 160 fps (for 160 Hz people) regardless of vote results. For 200 fps however you'll need a successful poll with the default poll conditions regarding creating/changing a rule.

wrong, the speed gain gets gradually bigger the more fps you have, provided it's 1000/n and you can keep them stable.
This applies to movement speed only though (acceleration). Fire rate stops getting faster at 200 FPS.

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im fine with 250 fps, game become smooth. Speed advantage is exaggerated imho, 100 fps isn't lower (only spawns are faster).
The real 250 fps problem is ghost models, fix it !


It isn't exaggerated, try jumping around with 333.33 or 500 FPS and you'll see the insane speed gain you get from those fps rates, but in my opinion it's not a bad thing, quite the opposite actually (provided that everyone uses it, see my reason below)

Also, time to empty a whole 50 mag of 9mmar:

100 fps: ~5,5s
125 fps: ~5,2s
200 fps and above: ~4,9s

Quote:
 
To the people that want unlimited fps, the question here is - do you want it because you want to have higher fps, or do you want it because you want to have speed advantage over the other players?

For me it's neither the advantage over other players nor higher FPS just for the sake of it or extra smoothness, it is the higher movement speed that simply makes the game much more dynamic and fun. You don't feel as restrained when bunnyhopping and trying to get to a certain place quickly, it brings the game closer to Quake speeds. Just try playing bootcamp or stalkx with 125 fps and then with 333.33 fps. You'll reach certain places much quicker especially after a fresh spawn. Of course this should be on a fair basis so that everyone is using the same high framerate, hence why I said it's not about the advantage.
Honestly though, I don't believe that there's anyone out here in 2016 that doesn't have a PC capable of running this game at 300 or more FPS.

Since I'm not playing in EHLL my opinion is obsolete (hence I'm also not gonna vote), but I just thought I'd throw it out there. There's people that simply enjoy the slightly faster pace that those 'special' framerates offer, it's not always about having an advantage over one another..

Quote:
 
In other words, would you still want and use it if it's unlimited but the exact speed advantage values are blocked?

No for the above reason, plus I remember that any sort of high framerate in this game that is NOT 1000/n made the game actually slower movement-wise. I remember it being a similar feeling as having set a lower sv_gravity, the time of being airborne was greatly increased. I don't know whether that's still the case with the newest steam build but I know it used to be like that.
If that's still the case then any sort of high FPS limitation that is not 1000/n would actually make the game even worse gameplay-wise.
Edited by toX, Nov 24 2016, 03:56 PM.
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The_Falcon
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Well if people want to move faster in general the better way to go would probably be to increase sv_maxspeed.

"I don't believe that there's anyone out here in 2016 that doesn't have a PC capable of running this game at 300 or more FPS."
- I'm pretty sure there are many people with such PCs. Mainly because the game is highly unoptimized compared to the modern games. 8-10 years ago I remember having higher fps in HL 2 than in HL 1....
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izzo
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The_Falcon
Nov 24 2016, 11:19 AM
To the people that want unlimited fps, the question here is - do you want it because you want to have higher fps, or do you want it because you want to have speed advantage over the other players?

In other words, would you still want and use it if it's unlimited but the exact speed advantage values are blocked?
I dont want to change fps , 125 is ok for the league system . For me higher fps may cause a micro graphic/models/animation bug . And we dont know what will be with reg on low quality server. Just wrote about unlimited fps, coz for what change fps to 144 for 1 , 2 players ? maybe 100 other players prefer to play with 250 so will be a little unfair .... and of course after 1 year conversation about fps will be back .

so If u rly want to change fps pick value what will be good for all not only for few people.
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.Executλble
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I don't think playing on a high fps changes the reg. It always depends against who you play, not what fps they use. I remember playing some test 1o1s at 1000fps (where both me and my opponent were playing on it) and I literally couldn't notice any difference in the reg. If anything, it should improve it since it seems to send more packets to the server.
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dirky
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Adrenaline gamer.....and people want caps and limits?

Lets rename it to Plebs gamer.

If the rule was use whatever you want, then those that chose 125, knowing that they would be at a "disadvantage", have shat in their own pies. So what...

I'm sure everyone would go as high as they can get and if its not high enough then hand out some consolation tissues.

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.Executλble
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Should probably mention again that 144fps barely affects your speed (and doesn't have the bodies bug), so it wouldn't change much at all, only make the game smoother for 144Hz monitor owners, possibly a little smoother for those with 60Hz too. Speed is not a concern.
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